.jpg)
PBIS Journey to Genius
Are you in the process of developing your PBIS Framework? Are you wondering where to start? You are in the right place. Join Dianne Ferrell and Diane Ruff as they share the ups and downs of creating and implementing a top-notch PBIS framework that has empowered their school to achieve Ohio recognition as a PBIS Gold School for 4 years. They will also share current issues in behavior management and how PBIS can help with those ongoing struggles. We would love to hear from you! Email us
@ pbisjourneytogenius@gmail.com
PBIS Journey to Genius
Episode 18 Igniting a PBIS Movement for Transformative Education at Dover Intermediate
Discover the heartwarming stories and innovative strategies behind Dover Avenue Elementary's transformation in student behavior management. Join us as Katie and Mary the dynamic duo from Dover, unravel their personal journeys into the world of education, driven by deep-rooted passions and family legacies. Katie's transition from classroom to administration, fueled by her innate leadership qualities, and Mary's candid reflections on the daily rollercoaster of teaching fifth-grade math, weave together a narrative of commitment and empathy. As we unravel the complexities of handling challenging behaviors, we celebrate the collaborative spirit that empowers the Dover Avenue Elementary community to rise above and thrive.
Step into a world where technology meets positive reinforcement, as we reveal how a simple shift from paper to digital skyrocketed Dover Avenue's student recognition rates from 61% to an impressive 93%. Our hosts, Dianne Ferrell and Diane Ruff, shed light on the power of teacher input in shaping a PBIS program that resonates with both students and educators. From 'tornado shoutouts' to personal lunches with the principal, we unpack the creative incentives that have reshaped the school's culture. In this episode, we're not just talking about educational innovation—we're celebrating the unsung heroes who make it happen every day.
Welcome to PBIS. Journey to Genius. Are you in the process of implementing PBIS? Are you wondering where to start? You are in the right place. We are here to support you. Stay tuned.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone. This is our next episode of PBIS Journey to Genius. I'm Diane Farrow, I'm here with Diane Roth and we come with a podcast every week about our journey through PBIS, as we've done it at Minerva, and we've been highlighting schools from different areas to bring on their most proud moments when they were going through their journey, and we always felt Diane and I always did that the best programs come through learning through others and putting that all together, because nobody can just do it all on your own. So our school today is Dover and the Dover Tornados. And Diane, do you want to introduce our people a little bit?
Speaker 1:Well, I think I'm going to turn it over and let them introduce themselves. So go ahead, Katie.
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm Katie Nicholson. I am the principal at Dover Avenue Elementary.
Speaker 4:And I'm Mary LeBright. I'm one of the fifth grade math teachers. Perfect.
Speaker 2:So they have been working on their PBIS here and we're reaching out to them to see what they have to do. But first of all we want them to kind of talk a little bit about themselves. So tell us each why you got into education. What started you down that path? Why did you want to be a teacher?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So for me there wasn't any big moment where I was like, oh my gosh, I have to be a teacher. But in high school I kind of went back and forth, because both my parents are in the medical field, so it was either teaching or medical field. And I have a younger brother with Down syndrome and it was one of the days that I was working with him on some of his homework that my mom was like you know what, mary, I think you would be a really good teacher. And I mean it wasn't anything big. But I just remember that moment being like, yep, ok, I'm going to go into teaching.
Speaker 1:So I love that.
Speaker 2:Well, that is a moment. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, For me I think it was just I have always been a helper, so I just was like that is who I am ever since I was little.
Speaker 3:That was kind of the way I was. I've always loved working with children, so when I was in high school I would try and do things in my church and in my community. That was just something I really, really loved. And then, as I got into my teaching experience, I was like this is what my heart was made for. And then, as I got into more teaching experience, I was like you know what I really like? Leading and helping others not just students, but helping adults and so, being in the leadership role, I get the wonderful opportunity of not only helping students but also helping teachers. I'm really trying to come in and surround them and support everyone.
Speaker 2:Oh, and how long have you been both? How long were you a teacher? How long have you been an administrator?
Speaker 3:So I've been an administrator. This is my third year and I have been. This is my 11th year of education, so I was an intervention specialist prior to that.
Speaker 4:And this is my 11th year in education as well, so OK.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you probably have some aha moments, like what keeps you coming back? You know, as you think, over the last 11 years or so is there that special moment or something that's just happened that like, oh my goodness, I just love what I do.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't say that I have just like one big aha moment because, honestly, there are some days where it's really tough. I mean, we all know that education can be rough and all the different things that we're required to do. Now it's daunting, like you know that there's so many people that are leaving education because of all of it, but so it's not anything big. It's just like those little things that happen, like maybe something happens one day, maybe it doesn't, but you know, and EL kid who's like brand new to the country, who's just so excited to work, like when you get to pull them one-on-one and work with them and they give you giant hugs and little notes that you're not expecting from kids, or seeing a kid who you had like years ago, that come up and, you know, get so excited that they see you. It's all those little moments that make all the tough moments.
Speaker 2:And you have to keep remembering those you like oh yeah write them down so that whenever you had that day, you know you can look at those little moments go. This is why I'm going to come back tomorrow and not clean my desk out today.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:You're sure.
Speaker 3:And I think for me it was. It was last year actually, so it was only my second year as a principal, 10th year in education. It was literally the most trying year that I have ever been. Through the behaviors we saw. I felt like once we had one behavior resolved, then, like all of a sudden, a new behavior started up with another kid and we're not talking like, hey, this kid is being disrespectful, we're talking like full seclusion, we're restraining kids, we're chasing down kids in the hallway. It was a lot, and so I was exhausted, but every single time that we had a moment of difficulty with the kid I was reminded of like this is exactly where I'm here.
Speaker 3:I have the fantastic staff and team of people who are willing to jump in and help and honestly, I would say that's one of the best things about Dover Avenue specifically is that, like if someone is struggling or we need help, anyone is willing to jump in, and so through every single situation we had hearing some of the most traumatic life experiences that some of our kids are going through.
Speaker 3:Like it explains why you see some of that behavior, and so it gives me so much more compassion for what they're going through and understanding. But again, just that good reminder for me of, like you know what, I am, exactly right where I need to be, and as exhausted as I am and the days that I'm like, what am I going to wear to chase a kid down the hallway? I think that too. Yes, I'm like you know what. I know what. I'm, where I'm supposed to be, is right here, and it was. It was exhausting, like Mary said, but it's everything that I know that I'm supposed to be doing, like I get to help. I want to be the light to those kids and to the staff, to be able to say you know what I'm going to do, I'm going to try and show you what I feel, but we are here together.
Speaker 4:So it's very much that servant part. Yes, yeah, because I think you and I both have that and it's just we know so many of the kids don't have that and so we have to be that person for them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I'm interested in and really understanding like that their, their lives are not the lives we grew up with, and so trying to understand like, okay, if I had to deal with that going home, you know what. It explains a lot as to why they come here and we need them to understand like you're safe, you're cared for and you're loved and that's what we're here to do.
Speaker 2:And your position. You're the teacher, so you're in the trenches all day long, but your position is so important because you understand her position and then to help her whenever she's ready to, so that and I try my best to do that.
Speaker 2:No, but it's so important Principal is. It's amazingly important, and I worked side by side with Diane for many years and watched great things happen as an assistant principal, so I do know that. Well, I'm sure that Dover is very lucky to have you both. So we're going to move on a little bit to PBIS now. So in your PBIS journey we've been asking schools what are you most proud of? What would you like to highlight in your tier one? You know established doing so.
Speaker 4:We just implemented our new PBIS system really fully last year, last school year, because so, like Katie said, this is her third year as our principal and before her it's like so many different things happened where we grade leveled and then COVID hit and then so all of her, our positive behavior and behavior system was so messed up and no consistency. So I was working on my master's program and getting ready for my principal internship, I was speaking with Katie and we were trying to figure out what my project was going to be. We both were like, yeah, we need to fix this.
Speaker 4:It is so rough right now. So that's when we started working on implementing and creating our own PBIS system. So, but when we started looking at this, it was in February of 2022. And what we used was literally all on paper, like there was no digital tracking whatsoever. And Katie and I are both really into data, like we like to look at data. I'm a math teacher, so I love the numbers.
Speaker 2:You and Diane should have lunch.
Speaker 4:But so we were able to collect a lot of those papers and try to analyze it. So in February of 2022, only 61% of our student population had received any type of positive reinforcement.
Speaker 4:Nice, you found that out, yeah, and so then you know, we did all of our planning. We started rolling things out in the next school year and by November of that school year Sorry, I know that's not what I'm talking about, I'm not doing November of this year we looked at this year's data for February. Since we're in February again 93% of our students have gotten positive reinforcement, and a lot of them multiple times too. So that's jumping from 61% to 93% just in two years. Like we're really proud of that, because you know, in the beginning we did have some naysayers that did not want to do this.
Speaker 3:And I think too, like going from that paper system to an online system, we're actually able to say like, okay, this is a true representation of what we're actually getting. It doesn't, of course, count for all the hey, you did a really great job, but it's like our specific positive reinforcement that we're using too.
Speaker 1:How do you track that? Is it like a Google Doc that you made? So?
Speaker 4:we tried really hard to get a actual like platform like live school kickboard, things like that. We didn't want to do that, we just wanted it, but it just was not in our district's budget. So we went back to the drawing board and we ended up coming up with we use a Google form for our positive reinforcement and then, anytime we have to track any negative behaviors, we use a Google sheet where we have it all analyzed based on the time, the place that they're at, so that way we're able to sort through all that.
Speaker 3:It's not the prettiest thing in the world, it's a massive spreadsheet for both the positive and the negative stuff. It's not the best, but it has worked for us for again free, so you can make it whatever you want when it's free.
Speaker 2:What size of your building? What's the size of people?
Speaker 3:who might be. We have about 385 students here.
Speaker 2:So just to know, you know using a Google sheet like that if it isn't in your budget. You know to get one of those programs that are out there. You know using that, but we just wonder. I just wondered what size should be, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what are the types of acknowledgments that, like you track, do teachers go in every day and put in certain things, or what are some of those examples?
Speaker 3:So we use the Google Form for what we call tornado shoutouts. So literally any staff member it's classified or certified can go in and they can access that Google Form and you can mark any student in the whole school, so it doesn't just have to be in your homeroom, it can be anyone. You see someone pick up some trash in the hallway. You can be like what's your name? And go grab them, fill it out right. Then it takes maybe 30 seconds.
Speaker 3:That's what we wanted was quick and efficient.
Speaker 3:That because we know teachers will buy more if you're like, hey, it's easy and fast, so that's the one way that we do it.
Speaker 3:And then every week I randomly draw names of those names that have been submitted through that, through that Google Form, and I announce them on the announcements. And so then we have a fourth and fifth grade winner every day and then at the end of the week we do pictures that kind of go on our slideshow in the hallway of those students who have been randomly chosen we're now in the pool slideshow, yes, to kind of honor them and what they've been doing. And then each month we do a top tornado chosen, and so the teachers work together within their teams to decide who's gonna be like our one or two students of the month that we get to honor, and so then through that, then they get lunch with me and that, honestly, that's been probably the most fun thing I've done, because it's just a very relaxing, chill time for them. I get to hear the funniest things about what they love about Dover Avenue and maybe what they don't love, and just some of the fun like fourth and fifth grade Lunch groups are the best they are.
Speaker 2:From a guidance counselor. I had lunch groups all the time. They are the best. Kids are the best.
Speaker 3:They're very fun, yeah, and then we do a nine weeks reward for the whole school. So if students have earned that, then they get to participate in that like nine week reward party that we have.
Speaker 2:So really, your spreadsheet is kind of like a school dojo type thing, only just doing it. And then teachers get on, they fill out a little form and that's what you do the drawings from, but then they go in and make the mark. So you're not trying to make 300 marks and stuff that you can administer. So they go in, make the mark on the spreadsheet quick and easy, fill up the little form and put it so that you can make the drawings. Yeah, absolutely Very quick. Yeah, but that's what it's like. You just made it yourself, yes, and then the version.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and we did look at class dojo. We just felt like, because we're fourth and fifth grade building it, just it was too baby-ish for our building, Like we because our second and third grade building uses it. But we just, yeah, we did a similar thing.
Speaker 2:I mean the same principle yeah, Without money attached. Yeah, yeah, that is awesome. So if you see your statistics go up like that, that makes Diane happy.
Speaker 1:Love to see that happen. Yeah, so what else did you want to share with our listeners today?
Speaker 3:I think for me that as a building leader, the one thing we really tried to reinforce and I'll let Mary share a little bit more, but we wanted it to not be one more thing the last thing everyone means in education, especially right now, is one more thing we really needed to first of all replace the old traditional style of let's only talk about the negative and also making it again very efficient for teachers to use. That way we would again buy in more. It was really we're replacing something else and making it more efficient. And then the other part of that is just making sure that teachers know that this PBIS is part of that multi-tiered system of support. Like we have got to start with the basic bottom part of that Maslow's hierarchy to really address any other academic needs.
Speaker 3:And so that has probably been the most challenging part of the year for me. I'll see you guys next time. Getting people on board is saying like, well, we're always talking about like the behavior and everything else, and I'm like, yes, but until we get the behavior resolved we are not going to be able to even address any math skills that they don't have. So I would say for us that's probably been one of the biggest things that we've been trying to continually reinforce is it's not one more thing, it is the very first thing we have to do, and we are replacing other things. We're not just adding on to, we're kind of taking some of the other stuff away.
Speaker 2:Yes, Do you think your staff has almost been relieved, though, that there's now some consistency across your building, where it was maybe some like their own thing, but I mean before I'm sure it was this teacher did this, or this grade level did this, or this group of teachers did this, but now you are across the board with this.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think so, and it makes my life a lot easier as well, because then I can consistently say like, oh, we need to give some more shout outs in this area. It makes it very easy then when parents call in to say like hey, what is a tornado warning? And I can explain to them, because everyone uses that same same behaviors, or someone, you do something that's not okay, it's a tornado warning, it's a 20.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, we created all of it ourselves.
Speaker 3:So I think that has, provided that consistency, has been so helpful and it's so helpful for our students of a team of four teachers. So the fact that in mary's classroom they could get a tornado shout out and then they could go next door to Mrs Morris and they could get a tornado shot from there. So it's not like you know, I have to learn her expectations and what her reward is going to be. So it has helped, I think, tremendously, honestly, with consistency.
Speaker 4:I'm just all using the same language of our three pillars of be respectful, be responsible and be safe, like. It's so much easier to have those conversations with kids that like, aren't on my team, like when I'm out on recess duty, there's four other home rooms that I don't see, and so if they're doing something, it is very easy for me to be like, hey, that is not being responsible and that's definitely not being safe, like, and they, they know that, and they, we all use the same matrix, and so it's just from the teacher standpoint I can see that the consistency is so much better.
Speaker 2:And with you being in this 11 years but really only seeing this the last couple years, as you put it together, you can see the difference big time, absolutely, yeah, just really awesome. Well, one thing we wanted to say okay, so now you're going to give a tip to a school that's been listening, you know, and what would you say was your number one tip, as someone's moving forward with this to they were you three years ago. You know what's your tip.
Speaker 4:Don't get yourself overwhelmed. That's like the biggest thing there's. Just there are so many different programs and there's so many different things out there, but there are some programs that are trying to sell it. Like here's your PDIS system and you can't just go and purchase a system Like it has to work for your building. Every school building is unique. So, honestly, like you have to take and create your own things. Like whether you do have an online digital system you can use. You still have to create it unique to your building, and did you?
Speaker 2:have a team. That's why it's called a framework.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a framework, so that you can take the framework and then make it your own, and so I just love that advice. Yes, what else? Yes.
Speaker 2:Can you talk about a team that you guys not doing it on your own, or feeling like you have to do it on your own?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that would be my biggest tip, especially as a building administrator. Like you can't own this, it very much has to be the teachers. Like I try to stay very, very quiet during any PBIS meetings we have. I'm kind of more of that big picture. Like I know one of our meetings we had the team was like hey, what about this really great idea for a war party? And like all right, let's talk about what that looks like practically, and not that I want to steal any of the fun away.
Speaker 2:Me and Otting.
Speaker 3:Me and the awesome, because I'm like that's a lovely idea on paper, but what will that actually look like? And then, as we start kind of talking through, it's like, ok, we can make that work. So I would say really getting a team around you, because as a principal, you can't own it all and as a classroom teacher, you can't own it all. It's really saying like we need to come together, pull those people who you know are going to be like oh my gosh, thank God we're doing this, or other people you're like I need to drag you along so you can buy into it early.
Speaker 3:And so, I think, really making sure that you have a group of people to surround yourselves with, that you don't have to own it yourself and give yourself a little bit of patience too. It's been now a year and a half using this system. We've come up with, and there's still things I'm like. I kind of want to do this a little bit differently next year. I think we can make this better, like constantly refining it, just to make it more efficient, make it more practical and better for the students.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:That is awesome, that is really awesome. And you are just shining through on some of the things that Diane and I have discovered over these years too, especially not being too heavily in the administrative role of it. Diane was principal and I was the guidance counselor, but kind of administrative roles and then having that teacher voice is so big for that efficacy to happen, that fidelity in the program. Right, diane, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I think we're good for today. Is there anything else we want to add?
Speaker 2:We really appreciate you guys coming on and just the fact that you have just started this. Some people have been in it for years. They're revisiting it again and they're trying to work out kinks and quirks or refresh it. But it's nice to hear from people who are just starting it and they're being two years into it and your excitement. So it's been really good, and I know schools that are out there struggling with their journey will enjoy hearing what you guys said today. So thank you so much for coming on and thank you, listeners, for taking the time to listen to our show.
Speaker 1:We would love to hear from you. Look for us on Facebook or Instagram, or email us at pbisjourneytugeneascom.
Speaker 2:This is Diane Farrell and I'm with.
Speaker 1:Diane Ruff.
